Is Your Organization’s DEI Work Performative or Permanent

0:03 Welcome to today's Building Forward i'm so excited
0:08 to have two guest stars with us here on Visionality's building forward we have
0:15 James Joyce famous of coffee with a black guy thank you for being here James and my colleague
0:21 Llewellyn Somers who is our operational and hiring manager and we're gonna have
0:26 a really great conversation today about how to make ... diverse hiring practices
0:32 permanent instead of performative and so ... i want to start out by acknowledging
0:38 that Llewellyn and i are two white ladies talking about diversity hires and that's
0:44 kind of weird and kind of awkward and and so i wanted to lay that out at the
0:49 beginning and i know we're going to use it as a job jumping off point for this conversation um
0:55 and i also want to ... preface this ... that my job as a leader and a ceo is to
1:02 find the most talented impressive smart people and hire them
1:09 and get them in a room together and so that's what i've done here and i'm gonna shut my mouth and let
1:15 these two incredible people have a conversation about hiring so with that
1:21 let's take it away [Music]
1:26 wonderful wonderful thank you Llewellyn you want to ... uh kind of give us a purpose or do you want me to just go ahead and dive in yeah i guess the

Preface

1:34 preface that feels most ... important is something that you said when we were
1:39 preparing about get comfortable with feeling uncomfortable and
1:45 in preparing for our conversation today i have been so uncomfortable
1:52 i have literally you know had moments just in the middle of the day not
1:57 doing work where i've been thinking through you know this this difficult
2:02 conversation and i'll just be i'll just start sweating i'll just lay it out there i'll just
2:07 start sweating thinking about it like it is ... it's a hard thing to talk about right
2:14 and we are trying to be ... vulnerable in sharing Visionality's
2:19 experience because we are coming from it ... from a place of
2:24 not at all being where we want to be which is um
2:30 like sharing a failing of ours and it's embarrassing in a lot of ways and
2:36 so i'm just going to lay all of that out there from the start and that's great

The Perfect Conversation

2:42 why this is the perfect conversation to have because it's so easy
2:47 to make a presentation and say look we're done right and and when we were
2:52 preparing for this i was really pushing James like i need five takeaways that every person can
2:59 attend this and then like put them into action immediately and James was like well no
3:06 that's not gonna happen and so we just decided we were gonna show up and be our imperfect vulnerable selves and
3:14 use ourselves and as an an example of a work in progress and yeah no better person to do it than
3:20 James well no thank you and, I... I appreciate that that ... Llewellyn and i think that
3:25 that's a you know that's the real like that's a that's an authentic step forward right
3:31 understanding where you are where you want to be and kind of what that gap is i'm going to give you all a quick little
3:37 snapshot of kind of what coffee was a black guy is why i started it and then we're just going to dive into addressing
3:42 some of some of that that awkwardness ... so i started coffee with the black guy back in 2016 just for the the reasons
3:49 that you expressed is that you know a lot of folks are new to conversations about
3:54 race and and it's my full belief as someone as i like to call it reverse engineering you hear Llewellyn what you
4:01 just shared someone who's lived that life on a daily basis in almost every room that i've
4:07 walked into ... i learned how to get comfortable being uncomfortable right and and ... that that whole sweaty
4:14 feeling that anxiety like that that's that's you know it used to be day by day i got
4:19 used to it and so, I... I kind of bathed in that at this point but ... that's why
4:25 these kind of conversations are important to move us forward to recognize kind of where we authentically
4:30 are ... and kind of you know what make what would move us forward into a better spot ... specifically looking at at
4:37 issues of hiring ... i've done you know over the past six years i've done facilitating conversations for
4:43 communities for small businesses for larger corporations and companies non-profit boards school districts across the gamut
4:50 of institutions who are looking to just have authentic conversations we can you know read the books you can
4:57 watch the documentaries you can go through all the trainings and have lectures ... but this is an opportunity
5:03 ... we're really gonna encourage you to engage and ask your questions and fumble through these things because you may or
5:09 may not have an opportunity to do that in the future ... a few basic guiding principles that i
5:14 wrote out when i first started working with coffee with the black guy is ... being respectful some basic rules right
5:21 ... be genuine be willing to listen ... be willing to feel something and that
5:27 one's important ... because because this this is really an interactive experience whether you're asking questions engaging
5:34 or not the interactive experiences often happening in our head and in our hearts all the time
5:40 and then the final thing is just don't seek to dominate with your story give shape skip space and share space we've
5:46 got a limited amount of time and we know that our bandwidth is limited as well so
5:51 i wanted to make sure that we make the time and engagement useful ... and short of that coffee with the black guy is just
5:58 that make sure you've got your beverage i've got mine ... it happens to be coffee this morning no judgment if it's not um
6:05 but ... ... you know just moving forward and having a conversation like you're having having a cup of coffee at your
6:11 corner store but really having a targeted conversation about how can we move some of the things beyond just
6:18 performative because it's going to feel performative at first and it's going to appear performative at first but how do
6:24 you get from performative to something that's more permanent and and and we can can ... excited to
6:30 dive in and talk through that ... i appreciate emily you you kind of
6:37 setting the stage and saying that ... that this is an awkward conversation for you all it's not awkward for me ... you
6:44 know i've been doing this it was awkward for me when i was ... ... you know learning the language to have these
6:50 conversations and it was a lot of anger and frustration and not knowing how to you know express that
6:56 but at this point yeah they may be awkward conversations but that's where you know growth is happening and if we
7:01 have time at the end i'll i'll ... i'll give you my beautiful flower analogy ... if i'm reminded um
7:09 so Llewellyn was there an issue specifically that we wanted to dive in on first or we
7:14 want to just go ahead and and open up for ... open up open up for questions and
7:20 engagement well i mean maybe we should bring to light like a challenge that Visionality

Visionality Challenges

7:26 has faced in terms of its hiring process right so ... we have you know if if
7:34 we were to be currently hiring right now and a candidate were to be looking into
7:40 Visionality researching us online they will pull up our teams page and they would see a team
7:46 that is mostly white mostly women and mostly 25 to 40 years old
7:53 so in these major major major categories we do not have the diversity that
7:59 our organization truly needs to be successful at the sort of work that we do we are
8:06 helping these organizations that are directly supporting our community and we aren't representing our community in those
8:13 really really important places and so and
8:19 that hasn't been in the history of visuality that hasn't been
8:24 quite so blatantly true all the time right but it that is our situation right now
8:30 and it's like how do you
8:35 break down those barriers to how that looks to a candidate how do you make those
8:42 efforts to like gain trust and this is a like exactly the performative versus
8:48 permanent question yeah the easiest answer to that is to
8:54 you know change the face change the way that that looks right and and that's ultimately okay so then what do we do
9:00 like what comes first the chicken or the egg at this point ... so kind of getting over that that that
9:07 trust issue ... i think a lot of the
9:13 a lot of the focus when we're dealing with these issues is what we're not instead of what we are
9:18 how do you all represent diversity do you represent geographic diversity do you represent diversity from various you
9:24 know ... colleges ... diversity from ... you know a social economic status like
9:31 thinking beyond just what you can pick up visually for diversity and highlighting
9:38 the diversity that you do have i think would be a good step forward ... because that does indicate for me when i
9:45 talk about diversity for me the definition is more about covering your blind spot than window dressing and
9:51 seeing different colors around the table right ... because i've been in all black spaces and it's and it's a very diverse
9:58 space right you've got people who come from a fluent background you've got single parent children you've got you
10:04 know kids that come from you know foster care like all of these different things and it's like their perspective is what they're
10:11 bringing that's the importance in diversity is the perspective yeah race gender ... ethnicity those
10:18 things inform perspective but they're not the only things that inform perspective right and so making sure
10:23 that you're able to highlight the diversity that you do have is is a good forward step in that um
10:31 [Music] in building that trust but then again, I... I think you know what's ultimately
10:36 important is being authentically yourself there's a Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's children's book that i read when i go to
10:41 schools and it's called 'What Color is Your World' and it explores the world and saying like you know it points out Lewis
10:48 Latimer and if you don't know who Lewis Latimer is well you wouldn't know who Thomas Edison is
10:54 if it wasn't for Lewis Howard Latimer right and so in this book ... Kareem Abdul-Jabbar points out all these various
11:00 things that are created or when you look at what your world is the color of the people who created
11:06 these things ... and and so when kind of the root of 'What Color is Your World'
11:12 ultimately when you're hiring new employees when you're recruiting to hire new employees
11:19 you're relying on your networks and if your networks are all
11:25 when you're asking yourself; 'what color is my world?' and your network reflects an all-white world well then of course your
11:30 workplace is going to reflect that as well right and so really thinking about you know what color is your world when
11:36 are you interacting with people that don't look like you when are you interacting with people who have a different perspective
11:42 than you and if the only time you're doing that is in a service relationship that's a problem change that right don't
11:49 think like oh yeah you know i talked to so-and-so when he checked me out at the ... Trader Joe's and that's enough no no
11:56 no what i'm thinking about is like okay so when ha has someone of a different background sat down on your couch and
12:02 talked about the things that they care about versus the things that you care about right and that's how you start
12:08 and and that's that's a little far distance from actually hiring right that's that's a distance from that but
12:14 that's how you populate to get to that end is is that you you really take you
12:20 know take an accounting of what what your surrounding looks like and who you're engaging and interacting with and
12:26 how you bolster that to be authentically beneficial ... to talk

Being Authentic

12:33 yeah and that feels like a moment where like the the permanent
12:38 shows up in a way that would be performative if it wasn't authentic behind the scenes
12:44 right like so we we make sure that our our website shows our affiliations we make sure that our bios express
12:51 these parts of of our lives so it's if if it's real behind it then it's not
12:59 performative but otherwise it is yeah and then you also like you also
13:05 have to realize that this is a journey like you're like you're not gonna like you can't stay mission focused on
13:11 this and expect to get to like victory right because victory changes and it's a
13:17 moving target and so ... you know, I... I i guess the phrase i like
13:23 to use is manage expectations ... and understand that i feel like i'm using a lot of cliches
13:30 right now but manage expectations and understand that just because you build it doesn't necessarily mean they're going to come right it's not the field
13:36 of dreams ... and you can build it you can have it on your web page and then ... the the four people
13:43 that you interviewed be like i never saw that because they didn't take the care to read it right and then that's another
13:49 thing right and so ... you know that that's another thing but i wouldn't
13:55 discount those folks for that because right now it's it's an employee's market right and so like it's really up to the
14:01 employer to ... make sure that you're enticing attracting diverse talent but
14:09 also making sure that you're being ... authentic about what that workspace is
14:17 right, I... I hate when folks ask me a question that is that that is
14:23 i hate when i get asked this question hey i'm going to an interview what should i like do you have any tips for me go into an interview like yes be
14:31 yourself that's the only tip i ever have going through an interview because if you've got to change who you are to adapt to
14:37 that space you don't belong there right and then if that like that's the mentality that i'm given to to folks of
14:44 all backgrounds right but specifically black and brown folks like you want to be able to show up what do we show up as
14:51 your authentic self when you show up as your authentic self and that environment still embraces you that's that's
14:58 inclusion right but we're still just talking about diversity well well and i want to say too as an employer i need my
15:05 applicants to interview me and our company as much as or more so than i'm
15:11 interviewing them because the most catastrophic thing for my organization is turnover and if you're
15:16 not able to show up as your full self and be embraced and respected and welcome for who you truly are you're not
15:22 going to stay along and so like please do that yeah oh yeah
15:27 i'm curious James to you know specifically in you mentioned if you

Lack of Diversity

15:32 build it they may not come specifically in our industry we have a lack of diversity you know we pull
15:39 primarily from individuals who work within non-profits and
15:44 they look like the Visionality team individuals who work within nonprofits are typically women
15:50 they are typically around our age and they are typically white and
15:56 and i know that saying well there there just isn't diversity in our industry
16:01 that we can't stop there and also it is a reality and there have
16:06 been local and national studies especially done by afp the association of fundraising professionals that
16:13 document this lack of diversity in our industry so talk to me a little bit about that
16:21 ... asset framing i'm gonna throw that phrase out there asset framing
16:26 it's how you look at it ... i've attended conferences and had research shared with me that points out
16:33 that black folks are the most philanthropic people in our country
16:38 right oh my gosh churches are non-profits so have you tapped into that sector right that's
16:45 where now of course those numbers are dwindling ... you know before for obvious reasons but you know
16:51 ... churches are nonprofits and so you've got folks that operate in those
16:56 structures that have transitional skills ... i know of tons of black and brown
17:04 focused organizations that are non-profit the naacp ... there's links incorporated
17:10 greek greek fraternity and sorority organizations both black and brown focused um
17:17 maba ... all of these organizations they're they're they're nonprofits right
17:22 and so really changing the way you think of the the nonprofits that you're you're connected with the nonprofits that um
17:30 the nonprofits that are savvy enough to seek assistance right because a lot of the nonprofits
17:36 that i'm affiliated with that are black and brown don't know what they don't know they don't know that there's organizations to help you do things
17:43 right and and ... and to help you perfect being a non-profit and allowing you to
17:49 focus on the work that you do and that's i think you know making it a strategic step in that direction ... um
17:57 could be you know could be fruitful ... but again it's gonna like that's not a thing where you're gonna you know
18:03 do that next week and then the week after it's gonna you know bear fruit ... it may not bear fruit for six months or
18:10 a year or or longer right ... but it's really about being authentically in those spaces and building relationships
18:16 ... i know that a lot of folks ... ... in the ventura county area get anchored with ventura county leadership academy
18:23 and one of the things that that's taught through there is relational leadership
18:29 come on who are your relations who who who are you connected to and thinking through
18:35 that is going to be helpful ... uh in a lot of whether that's clients whether that's um
18:42 hiring or whether that's just making friends right like the world tends to be better
18:48 when we have friends that expose you to different things you know i would have never gone ... what
18:55 is that skiing on the water jet skiing i don't know what it's called but like it's because, I... I hung out with a guy that a
19:02 white dude that ran on my track team and he was like hey come to my cabin with me this weekend i'm like
19:07 all right sure so then i get exposed to different things that i otherwise wouldn't have
19:14 yeah ... i want to talk about like the resources that an organization needs to
19:19 set aside to be deliberate about this and the planning that it that it needs to take but i'll just glance at my timer
19:26 i know we always try to do these in 25 minutes and i started mine a little late but we're at about nine minutes
19:31 ... so for our hiring process you know we we always say that your dij work is not um

Hiring Process

19:40 real until it's on your ... budget as a line item right yeah and so for us
19:46 the shape that that has taken is that ... we
19:52 like everybody else by the time we need to hire we needed that person in the seat three months ago and we are
19:57 urgently needing that person and yet we have been committed to the investment that it
20:04 takes to do a longer hiring process to make sure that we give every opportunity
20:09 to build up a diverse pool of candidates so that's that's one thing that we've taken some deliberate steps
20:16 to do and then you know if someone's to go to that membership meeting for six
20:21 months or a year like you got to plan for the the staffing cost of that
20:29 and even after a year when you don't have a result from it you still got to stick to it and like
20:35 and that is a a challenge when the resources feel so tight so did you say line item or line
20:43 items items yeah staffing time
20:48 membership dues right so so as you're thinking about that like
20:53 diversity inclusion work should be line items right so and you're thinking um
20:58 ... ... so
21:04, I... I don't i don't know specifically but say say you utilize subcontractors to do some of the work for bigger contracts
21:11 where are you sourcing your con those those subcontractors do you have a diversity and inclusion focus in that as
21:17 well because what that'll do is at the you know three years down the road one of those contractors that you work with
21:23 might be looking for a job and come back around to someone who they had a good experience with right
21:29 thinking about that in your marketing outreach right so are you marketing in just um
21:36 non-profit or you know ... what's the association of
21:41 nonprofit or fundraising professionals of publications or are you also spreading that money to
21:48 the freedom ... you know buying an ad in the naacp's freedom fund banquet and ... you know the the latino business expo ad
21:56 and you know those kind of things ... and so, I... I kind of say a lot of folks have
22:02 moved to the okay we're going to invest in diversity inclusion equity work and they've made it a line item that sets
22:09 aside from everything else that they do the mindset that we should be moving toward is have that included in
22:15 everything right so if you've got a food budget who are your diverse food vendors
22:20 right like don't just eat ... what's it chicken ranch like figure out some other folks as well that to spread that money
22:27 around and you know to to increase your taste bud ... ... so so those are are some of the
22:34 things that i think that that could be helpful in the in the ... thinking about
22:41 resources and how to expend those resources because it shouldn't just be a one-off thing it should be
22:48 like you don't you don't ... it shouldn't just be a one-off thing it should be something that's infused in
22:54 everything that you do right you know i like to point out ... you know i'm not necessarily a religious
23:00 person myself but let's just use christianity folks who claim to be christians go to church on sunday
23:08 but do they stop being christians when they leave church they're not supposed to right they're so they're supposed to go
23:13 to church on sunday get charged to do the work throughout the rest of the week right and so that's what these kinds of
23:19 conversations are doing the mindset of not making it just a thing but making a part of the thing ... it is kind of the
23:27 the better direction yeah and i think the other line item that would need to be addressed is the
23:33 line item for time for training and onboarding that is sufficient so if like
23:38 the more specific we get in our job descriptions for example when we want not just a project manager anymore we
23:45 want a project manager of fundraising and Visionality is committed to doing mission-driven you know benafon based
23:52 fundraising right if we can hire someone who knows what all those words mean already then we hit the ground running
Transitional Skills
23:58 but if we are going to look at ... you know like pulling from your church example like the sort of fundraising
24:04 that happens at a church is not necessarily the sort of fundraising that we're doing but like
24:10 what would it take to train a person up to those ... to
24:16 what is necessary for this particular role and and i think what would help that would be to understand what type of what
24:24 is the skill set that they're using in church fundraising that's transitional to what it is that you can use right
24:30 yeah ... yeah, I... I i that concept of transitional
24:36 skills ... i think is important ... particularly when you're looking at diversity like
24:42 you know let's let's let's utilize jay-z is a great example you know admittedly
24:48 a street dude was successful in selling drugs because that was the economic engine that was available to him in his
24:54 neighborhood and many many more but then look how those skills have transitioned over into the legitimate
25:00 market right he's got all the business assumed from the streets but it like
25:07 would an executive have made that connection to see the value in that for him from him probably not
25:15 but a forward-thinking person very well may see that in other things like you know ... folks working in various other
25:22 sectors that could have transitional skills that would be beneficial five minute warning
25:29 ... i did see a question in the chat about ... nonprofit salaries as a barrier to diversity and inclusion i think it's
25:36 less about the actual salaries and more about the perception of the salary um
25:42 you know my understanding of the nonprofit sector is that that you know salaries are actually better than than what you you
25:49 probably think ... you can make you know sustain and make a living working for a non-profit ... ... or working for
25:57 non-profits and doing non-profit work ... and i think you know
26:02 yeah it's usually like the higher levels of like the executive directors and and
26:08 development directors and things of that nature but exposing folks who may not even know those are
26:13 job possibilities exposing folks to that stuff is i think your pipeline right you
26:18 got to work your way up in any industry ... yeah and in terms of if you build it
26:25 they will come last year Visionality implemented health benefits for the first time
26:31 we had a hiring process in works and it was not generating the

Entrepreneurial Spirit

26:37 candidates that we were looking for and we paused it and we spent four months implementing health benefits
26:44 and we reposted we built it and we waited for them to come and it did not change the candidate pool
26:51 you know it was just a moment of total humbling for us of like we thought we
26:57 had a key here and maybe that's because the job market is so strange right now
27:03 maybe because i don't know but it was an interesting lesson for us
27:09 yeah yeah and sharon thank you for that that comment my fellow ... vcla are ... talking
27:16 about degree requirements for jobs that don't really need to be need is a huge barrier ... and experience and
27:23 entrepreneurial spirit should be acceptable criteria you know and i think that kind of harkens back to the you
27:28 know a more ground level for for jay-z we're not all going to become billionaires um
27:35 but yeah though those those are are solid so we're we're at about time our
27:43 commitment to y'all is a is a big topic within 25 minutes so i want to open it
27:48 up to everybody for questions put it in the chat come on camera and meet yourself if that's comfortable for you
27:55 ... oh i see my friend Judy's here as well she says in the chat nonprofits often attract entrepreneurs and
28:01 entrepreneurial skills i completely agree with you and and Sharon
28:06 agreed i would much work experience and a figure it out kind of spirit is so valuable
28:13 what what if non-profits did something similar to some of these larger corporate companies and i know that there's a financial investment in this
28:19 but i've seen ... like a ... some companies that you know mid to large size tech companies
28:26 they'll have incubators for their employees right so if you have an entrepreneurial bug or have an idea
28:32 there's a venue to kind of cook it and work it out within the structure of that
28:38 ... you know that that's an idea that i've seen ... be successful but it's a commitment
28:49 what other questions yeah judy what you got oh good morning ..., I... I think this is um
28:56 related but maybe kind of on the other side of the organizational question so i'm a consultant and a coach and a
29:02 facilitator in the ... mainly in the nonprofit sector and ... James i heard you speak to

Business Model

29:07 something that i've been thinking a lot about which is you know organizations who might not be thinking about where
29:14 are there opportunities ... for them to have the support of consultative services
29:19 both to grow their organization to look at supporting their leaders to you know move forward and gain skills
29:26 and so i'm you know and i'm curious about that like as a ... as a business
29:32 model like you know how to how to go about identifying or creating a
29:37 marketing message that attracts organizations to be able to see for themselves that
29:42 there are services that could help them expand i'm thinking of um
29:50 oh my gosh i can't think of the name it was several years ago so i'm on a national board of a non-profit called student african american brotherhood and
29:56 it's primarily focused on you know academic and professional success for
30:01 african-american men through ... uh you know college and into career
30:07 several years i mean we've been an organization for 35 plus years but there was this stagnation in our organization
30:13 we were getting grant funding like you know ... the lumina foundation gave us funding or different these different
30:18 foundations gave us funding but then what do we do well we realized as a board member like well our our director
30:25 our executive director doesn't have a marketing presence and so i but there was this
30:32 ... kind of craigslist like type organization that you could go to
30:38 and basically people who provided services put their services on this site and then
30:45 organizations who needed those services could go on there and basically these people would provide pro bono services
30:52 to non-profits in order to help them scale up but a lot of that was
30:57 we didn't even know that that existed until we had a consultant come in tell us about this thing and said that this
31:02 is something that's available to you so i bring that example up from really thinking about like
31:08 the things that are out there you don't have to recreate the wheel ... that there are vehicles out there to kind of help
31:14 folks ... uh know and expose that and use that as the entry point right it utilized that like
31:21 if they you know we had worked with a marketing agency out of new york ... and ... we were based
31:29 in ohio at the time and so like yeah we were working with this person who had the good will and the
31:36 good heart but they didn't like they weren't on the ground and knowing the work that we were doing and you know intimately and so
31:43, I... I bring that up to to kind of say that if you can help introduce something that
31:49 will benefit you down the road it'll kind of get that thought process working right and so they'll see like these
31:56 organizations that may not know that these these resources are available to them they'll start to see the value in
32:02 reaching out for these resources and then when they realize that your value you'll be there
32:08 right because you're the one that helped them think down that that process well and James you gave Visionality that

Pro Bono

32:15 opportunity do you remember when you connected us with ... naacp ventura county ... you were
32:22 moderating a a forum for them and it was in the
32:28 height of the pandemic and and you gave us the opportunity to do some pro bono work for them in running
32:34 their zoom and it was such an eye-opener for me on how
32:39 as a company we can have real effect in offering pro bono
32:46 services because it's truly just very cost effective for me so it's not that
32:52 i have to earn the money to give the money it's just like no i've already invested in my team we already know how
32:59 to do this really well ... it will take this much effort for us
33:05 to support this organization with this much impact and it was just such a such
33:10 a gift and so that's something that we're working into our cash flow and staffing plans is you know
33:16 when we when i step back to plan the year it's you know what organizations do we want to invest
33:22 in what kind of profit do we need to make so that we can have those investments what is the implication on our on our
33:29 staffing if i want to make my team available in in that kind of area and it's just been
33:35 really impactful to be like oh this is a very easy way for us to plug in and again
33:40 build organizations up at a foundational level indeed and i appreciate you bringing
33:46 that up because there's an additional level to that that you i mean instead of thinking of it in pro bono it's a partnership right
33:53 whereas you know something something like the naacp they do like i mentioned the freedom fund banquet every year and
33:59 they're always going to the black organizations to sell ads in their program and it's like that's great but
34:06 how do you expand that to like have your impact be felt in throughout the
34:11 community right and so like yeah it'd be it's great to know that i can go to that freedom fund bank
34:17 program look in there i'm like oh these are the black businesses essentially right but
34:22 how do we get that crossover to happen well instead of saying we're going to do it for free hey naacp i don't i know
34:29 that you have this freedom fund banquet how much would a half page ad in your your program be look we're willing to do
34:35 that amount of work that double that amount of work for you throughout the year and doing these
34:40 various things but we just want to make sure that we have a presence in there right that's a that's that's saving on
34:45 marketing dollars or maybe it balances zeros out but i mean thinking creatively
34:51 like that's a little bit of what they call that creative budgeting
34:56 yeah yeah what other questions do people have or
35:01 or successes that you want to share with the group or struggles that you're in the midst of we're we're here to
35:07 workshop things and celebrate if you've got some good things going on
35:18 yeah thank you no thank i'm really enjoying this and i'd love some guidance ... one

Budget

35:24 kind of thing i struggle with is a little bit back to what you're talking about but budget um
35:30 ... dei as integrated in everywhere but totally separate and we're accountable for it ... like that so
35:38 everywhere in any way so i struggle with that as a concept and i'd love any guidance you might have on that as a
35:44 concept as a like no no no here's like i hear the journey i hear start with where you are recognize where you are ... but
35:51 there are a lot of different steps you could take in any particular order and ... i'm aware of that too
35:59 again i'll lean back on asset framing ... you know within any company money is everywhere
36:05 and you're held accountable to that right ... and and you know like
36:11 that's the bottom line you know how how is like how close is
36:18 are these diversity inclusion and equity issues to the bottom line for you right for your organization ... and and you
36:25 know really thinking of it that way ... can can be helpful um
36:31 but you're right like you can't just you can't just like oh it's a part of everything and so we're not gonna be held accountable to it there's like
36:37 there's there's a lot of metrics that are being developed and kind of there's some that have been out there and tested
36:42 and proven and you know there's definitely some tips that you can you know that are out there to kind of make
36:47 things better but ultimately it comes down to the culture and so you know um
36:52 what's been interesting to me over the past particularly two to three years is seeing the growth of the language of
36:59 people and culture in companies right ... and and it wasn't it really yeah they were
37:06 moving towards people and culture but then that became much more of a thing when we wanted to focus on diversity and
37:11 inclusion is like yeah people people in culture we need to include that in that instead of just human resources
37:19 right and the language really really matters when when when you hear it and
37:24 particularly when you're with the the recipient of that language um
37:31 so yeah, I... I think that that some of the i guess some of that recommendation is language the other part is asset framing
37:36 and thinking about how you know how is it infused in in all of those things um
37:44 did does that answer your question or did i kind of meander on a soapbox no that was a poorly that was good because
37:51 that was a poorly framed question to begin with so i think that but ..., I... I do want to work it out
37:57 i do want to follow up then and ask about those ... metrics you mentioned or those things and ... what about people
38:03 closer i feel very exposed my title got changed about people and culture about two years ago so i'm feeling quiet okay
38:09 sorry before you answer that question James i just want to like jump in on this people
People Culture
38:16 and culture human resources sing because we're a team of seven right now we're a small team and and i represent human
38:23 resources right but my title is operations manager and it used to be only emily and i and we all just do
38:29 everything that needs to get done and now we're big enough to allocate into these different categories
38:35 and i think that it's interesting you know we've been doing building forward for a while and this is my first
38:41 building forward because i'm on the internal side of the business but this topic
38:46 brings in a different segment of an organization and it may not be like um
38:53 a segment that is as used to being in front of the camera
38:58 talking about things right but it it it's a really interesting
39:04 thing to consider the fact that like how do you make these significant changes in your organization if you
39:10 don't actually have every level of the org chart on board in some way
39:15 and that i think fault like is perhaps a way to frame like how do you allocate the resources well you
39:22 can't just say like let's get our ceo out there networking and then be done i think you have to think about how to
39:29 make sure that everyone is feels like a part of the process and is invested in
39:34 that process in some way right so some companies what they'll do is they'll do um
39:41 knowing they're encouraged their employees to make ... donations to nonprofits by saying that they'll match
39:47 that donation right matching donations and so ... creative little programs like that can be helpful to get everybody to
39:53 buy it ... um ... i'm trying to think of create one here
39:59 on the top of my head right ... so say say um
40:05 ... we'll you know as a as an organization we'll pay for so some
40:10 organizations they'll pay for for ... if you're an attorney they'll pay for you to your bar fees every year because
40:17 that's a benefit to the business right so what if the business paid for your um
40:24 your annual membership to a a professional organization or
40:29 a community non-profit or something you know or something like that so say that ... one of your employees was like you
40:36 know they're interested in bird watching and they want to join like some autobahn society and instead of doing just an
40:43 autobind society well how about we do the you know the minority focus out of behind society and make ourselves
40:48 uncomfortable and expose ourselves to a different group of people like yeah that's a personal passion of mine but
40:55 that connection that network is gonna benefit the company maybe maybe if it does directly benefit the
41:02 company great if it doesn't directly benefit the company it benefits the company by investing in my people
41:09 and the things that my people are passionate about right but in that extra level of encouraging your people to be
41:15 passionate in an area that they're not normally comfortable right like like ... i've heard people
41:20 talk about ... comic-con and how comic-con is probably the most accepting environment that they've ever been in
41:27 because people from all backgrounds they're there just because we're all weird we're here because we have this common
41:34 theme of being weird i don't care what color you are i don't care where you come from i care that that costume is
41:40 dope right and so when you have that that that that common bond or that common tie beyond
41:46 the the thing the diversity the inclusion all of that like it that's that's the
41:51 authenticity that's what takes you beyond performance
41:56 katherine i think i you served your second question though can you say it again
42:02 okay it's a it's a cheap question but you did mention metrics so i wanted to know like what what matters

Metrics

42:08 yeah so i mean that that largely, I... I i'm a fan of of encouraging organizations to
42:14 align metrics with your mission and vision right if it's not in your mission and vision don't why are you measuring it right ... and so
42:21 then that also makes you think well then if we haven't included inclusive inclusion exclusively in our mission or
42:28 vision do we really care about it right and so you know yeah there's
42:35 there's ... i know that the independent schools they use ... there's something called an
42:40 inclusion dashboard and so for these schools like there's a series of metrics that they utilize to say okay how are we
42:48 doing as it comes to inclusion right that they're at that similar i've seen that that there's a a dashboard that for
42:55 some reason craft breweries have there's a network of craft breweries
43:00 that have embarked on this diverse and inclusion work and there's a dashboard that they utilize right and so
43:07 within professional organizations there's organizations that are developing these things and or have
43:12 utilized them to be developed or utilize them and and kind of been perfecting them over the years
43:18 none are popping to the top of my head right now as far as names or anything of that nature but there are some metrics
43:24 out there but again they're to be utilized as models not
43:30 blueprints yeah i feel like metrics is where the
43:35 conversation sometimes becomes the most uncomfortable and leads to some of the worst ... like
43:43 successes that are not successes right and yeah that it's just ... it's hard for
43:51 people to talk about metrics without them feeling like they're talking about their current or future team members as
43:59 numbers but but i agree in the power of if
44:04 you're not quantifying something then how are you working towards it how are
44:09 you being specific about that goal you know what's another metric how many positive stories have been
44:15 shared right how much positive feedback
44:21 how much negative feedback like stories are are part like that builds that narrative essentially what metrics are
44:27 they're just numbers to tell a story so if you can find another way to tell a story
44:32 beyond just numbers like yeah you've gotta utilize numbers but say you know ... these numbers need
44:39 to be backed up by so so so, I... I think i think emily and Llewellyn are aware last week i did a presentation to on mental
44:46 illness ... did a speech on that and the speech that followed mine like i was anchored in very much individualized
44:52 stories but the speech that followed mine was a woman that came in and talked about numbers and was like you know in a
44:59 ... in a county of santa barbara say i think 35 000 people have been identified with
45:06 a you know mental illness and it's like that's a large number but then when you
45:11 connect that number to the stories that were shared and then the stories that came after that being able to have those
45:17 numbers and contextualize those numbers and make them human i think is is like a better way to
45:25 think about utilizing metrics
45:30 and also remembering that there is no finish line no no
45:35 yeah
45:41 good thank you catherine one three questions one i remember we had a big aha moment

Aha Moment

45:47 within our company ... where we created
45:54 a list of our values and went over those values with our whole team and i remember having this
46:01 aha moment within some of our team members where they you know we were very clear what our
46:08 values are and then challenged them to under to find ways
46:13 that they can personally touch our values and and helping them understand that each of these values is each of our
46:20 jobs every single day and one of those values is building up the eij within our
46:25 organizations and within our clients so it's two questions for us it's what does the
46:31 diversity and inclusion on our team look like but so that's great that's my job and that's Llewellyn's job but for our
46:38 project managers it's also their job to build that up in their own clients and
46:43 so they just had this big epiphany of like oh wait this is not just about us this is where we get to bring our
46:50 company values into our organizations to help make them more resilient
46:56 and then i think from there it became a question in our first level of screening
47:01 for candidates of how can you contribute to our deij work of like our is this
47:06 going to be something that is important to you if you join our team well and screening of our potential clients too
47:13 like like we have now crossed that rubicon where we're not taking every client we
47:18 are only taking clients who align with our values and that was just such a huge
47:24 like scarcity abundance like
47:29 this is our values have become non-negotiable ... in all pieces of the
47:34 work that we touch so what you all are just talking about is essentially a language of life so
47:40 catherine back to your question that's a metric right so has your organization done a language audit of the language on
47:46 the web page the brochures the outreach for job descriptions all that kind of stuff but make sure that that that
47:52 language is is is tuned with your vision your mission and vision as well as the
47:59 focus on ... the additional things that you care
48:04 about the diversity the inclusion the equity ... yeah
48:11 judy coming in with another banger so her her question and judy i love this because i asked this exact question when
48:17 we were doing our prep last week so judy asks ... how are white people welcomed at
48:25 organizations centering leaders of color are there places for what for white individuals to recognize and step back
48:32 and you want to answer this for me emily no i want you to tell everyone what you

Reverse Engineering

48:38 told me yeah i think that this is a thing about reverse engineering right like
48:45 ... let me let me rephrase that question
48:51 how am i as a black person welcomed at organizations centering people that
48:56 don't look like me right that's that's the question of my life that's the question of the life of every
49:03 black person every brown person trying to navigate white america right and so utilize that as a model
49:09 learn from it again not a blueprint but a model ... there's there's like um
49:19 being white in america affords you this this privilege of comfortability
49:25 there's this privilege that i go to the grocery store i'm comfortable well i mean
49:32 with gun now that's all questionable but you know generally speaking it's like that's a comfortable
49:38 environment that alone me is anxiety driven
49:44 because though when i look around it's like oh there's three other black people in the store right like
49:50 we we make eye contact we nod but there's nobody welcoming us in that
49:56 environment you're not necessarily going to be welcomed in that environment now
50:01 let me tell you what i know about my people is because we have been on the other end of that
50:08 when we see someone in our environment that's not normally there and we see that uncomfortability and fidgety
50:14 somebody within and within that that structure is more likely to make an outrage
50:21 it's empathy right when you can empathize with how another person is feeling and what another person is going
50:26 through and you can help them through that don't expect it but understand that that it it's likely
50:33 to happen and so like yeah there's a there's a tap dance that you have to play when you're entering spaces that
50:38 that are you know essentially designated for people of color
50:44 doesn't mean that doesn't mean don't go and it was so funny because i was just like
50:50 you you said well like there are you know a
50:55 black professionals network of santa barbara or something like that and i was like i can go to that and you're like
51:01 yeah dude just show up and and then and Llewellyn if you're comfortable sharing out i
51:07 don't know if you remember but you had some really interesting insight on
51:13 building trust ... in that process do you remember what we talked about
51:18 yeah definitely and i guess i am a little uncomfortable sharing it because i feel like it's like
51:25 holding it up next to your experience James and it's not the same as your experience
51:30 oh ... it's from your perspective so my perspective on the situation is
51:37 that i feel like i am the person who recognizes the person who's uncomfortable and and uses empathy to
51:44 connect and i think that that being an instinct for me is a result of
51:50 a lot of things about i grew up in south oxnard in a neighborhood where i was one of the only
51:57 we were one of the only white families i've you know i've had all these different experiences where i've
52:02 actually been accustomed to being the only white person in a room i will say quite honestly that when i
52:08 moved to the house where we live in right now in north oxnard and we had white neighbors i thought it was weird
52:14 i'm not joking i thought it was really weird and so i
52:20 i guess it's just ..., I... I always feel jumbled up in my brain and in my heart
52:25 in these conversations a lot because it's like from a first glance i'm just another
52:32 white person in the room of white people contributing to the uncomfortableness of the black or brown person in the room
52:38 but in it you know it, I... I feel like i
52:43 am there's so much more to it there for me that's like packed into it
52:51 and and Llewellyn i i'm i'd venture to say that
52:56 if before we had connected if i saw you in a room
53:01 i could get that sense i may not know the whole story but i could probably pick up like oh she's
53:07 cool people right that and that that's probably the language that we would utilize like oh that's cool people like and understanding like
53:14 you probably understand more than what you do than what it appears that you do right ... and
53:22 you know hearing you hearing you share that just now i think i was thinking back like how i was trying to like deconstruct how
53:29 would i know that i don't know like, I... I i don't know how i can explain
53:34 to you how i would would pick up on that but one way could be
53:40 well when i'm in a room and i'm the only one and no one decides to make eye contact with me or even speak
53:47 it's a little weird yeah right so when you see that like sometimes i get
53:52 a smile and a hello goes goes so far yeah yeah
53:58 yeah and i think if i bring that into the conversation about me being a person who has hired for Visionality for all
54:05 these years it's like i don't feel like i have any success so far in communicating that to a candidate
54:12 until the moment that i'm on a zoom interview with them and then i feel like we can get that
54:19 connection and on some level ... but in terms of attracting the
54:25 candidate to us ... there's i don't have that success yet
54:31 and and that's where these tactics that we're talking about today come in that's where where do i need to be out in the
54:36 community doing that well and the other thing that we talked about was
54:43 that we're building relationships every day and that's where where this goes
54:48 from performative to permanent it's like no emily
54:54 it wasn't sufficient for you to join naacp naacp ventura county like that's not
55:01 enough like are you showing up to the meetings are you continuing to build relationships and and we had talked to
55:08 about like this ... this need to build that trust in order
55:15 to open those doors and and there is just an inherent
55:22 distrust when i show up in a room of people who don't look like me why are you here
55:28 and and needing to have that time to establish a relationship
55:34 so that so that the door becomes open why are you here
55:40 but you know what makes it makes it much easier to answer that question of why you're here when you enter that room and someone
55:47 like you know the president regina says oh this is emily from Visionality who helped us out with xyz if you all
55:53 remember that event and how smooth that was right you know it's that that ... experience
55:59 having that experience helps validate and create credibility and and and
56:05 experience and consistency right
56:14 what else any other questions or
56:20 feedback or successes or struggles
56:28 nothing's off limits this is your opportunity yep
56:35 well maybe we've done it we solved it good yes
56:40 [Laughter] all right everyone i want to thank each of you for showing
56:47 up and being uncomfortable and being vulnerable and feeling something with us and i want to
56:53 ... thank my friend Llewellyn for getting out of her comfort zone and and co-hosting being my co-star on this i
57:00 really appreciate you and and James i'm so glad i get to work alongside you thank you for
57:06 sharing yes the flower oh the flower the flower you got to talk

The Flower

57:12 about the flowers so the flower is kind of what i would you know when we talk about getting uncomfortable
57:18 think about a flower we're all flowers right we love the the end result of a flower we like the rose we like to see
57:25 see the beautiful colors we like to smell it but what we don't know about that when we engage the flower is the
57:31 journey that that flower took right and that flower had to go through a lot of uncomfortability to become that
57:36 beautiful thing that it is it started off as a seed or a bulb as i've been directed i have to i do
57:42 have a little bit of a green thumb but as a seed or a bulb right and then in order to start to become a flower it's
57:48 got to go through a frictionless uncomfortable act of cracking through the seed or the bulb to sprout and then
57:54 as it's sprouting yeah it's green it's not ugly per se but that's not the beautiful thing that you think about
58:00 like you think about the flower but as it's unfolding and doing this thing called growing and getting new leaves
58:06 and all the things that it needs to do to prepare in order to to bloom that's uncomfortable the flower probably
58:13 doesn't feel good about having to like unfold and stretch out its leaves as a flower that's probably like some
58:20 growing pains right and so that's what we're going through we think about us particularly in as we're looking at
58:25 better racial understanding as flowers and trying to get to something but understanding that it takes a journey of
58:31 uncomfortability to get there i think it will ease us into it a little bit better
58:39 i love it all right everyone thank you all so much we'll be back
58:46 this time next month ... please let us know what topics you'd like to cover
58:51 we're always looking for co-stars so please email me if you have something to
58:56 share please email me and let's have a good conversation about it i appreciate each of you go make the world a better
59:02 place. Thank you, thank you all! Bye everyone