State of the Region for Nonprofits: The Good, The Bad, and The *Slightly* Ugly

0:04 Good morning, welcome to a very special Thursday edition of Building Forward ... my name is Christiana Almeida i am the
0:10 senior project manager here at Visionality Partners with me today is the ever fabulous Emily
0:16 Barany who is the founder of, CEO, Queen Bee of Visionality and then also joining us
0:22 today is very smart person Tony biasadi ... Tony comes to us from a couple of
0:28 sources the pacific coast business times but he has also been the lead on the Ventura County state of the region ... 20
0:35 ... report over the past couple of years this has probably been one of like the
0:40 biggest like if you love data like this is like your dream like thing to fall asleep with every single night
0:46 it does a really comprehensive view of Ventura County's economic health in multiple areas ... so
0:54 Tony has agreed to talk to us today a specifically about the non-profit sector
0:59 ... we're gonna be talking about the good the bad and the slightly ugly aspects of this ... and then
1:05 we have questions available for you all at the end ... and our fabulous uh
1:10 assistant Taryn who's also a new hire we absolutely love having her on the team she just dropped the link to download
1:16 that into the ... chat for us but there's also physical copies available as well
1:22 Tony is that correct yes ... yeah here's a physical copy uh
1:28 yeah if you want a print copy ... you can visit the Civic Alliance website and purchased one there the download is
1:34 free ... i can't speak for them there may be extra free print copies around but
1:39 generally the download's free in the print copy is 25 maybe anyway
1:46 and you can you can order it from them you can pick it up from them and i'll show it to you perfect yeah it's a really great
1:51 investment especially ... i like having a copy on hand just to reference ... and i've definitely used this for
1:57 multiple things for our own work ... at Visionality as well you know as we as when we talk to
2:03 clients as well so as always we do this in 25 minutes so Emily and i are gonna get started and
2:09 we're gonna warn you guys all three of us have dogs so there's probably gonna be barking at some point and that's
2:15 totally fine okay going in three two one timers are going
2:21 so Tony thank you so much for joining us today thank you for having me
2:27 so we're talking quality of life indicators in specifically Ventura County some of the indicators also
2:32 reference california as a whole or and or santa barbara county but for the purposes of this we're primarily focused
2:39 on Ventura County and looking at some of the indicators in the state of the region report through a non-profit lens
2:47 in terms mostly of the health and equity of our staff which i think is a really
2:54 important ... topic for a whole bunch of reasons and
2:59 you know number one let's start talking about ... gender pay equity how about that
3:05 yeah absolutely ... so overall ... the non-profit sector
3:12 doesn't pay as well as like the rest of the economy ... there's a chart that's on ... page
3:19 question 25 of the report ... which actually this this would be easy to call up i can do this
3:27 yeah and make sure ... we put the link to download it in the chat so feel free to download it and follow along um
3:34 this is truly one of my favorite pieces of information i did it wrong okay well i screwed up already i have
3:41 two screens and i shared the wrong one ... that's all right
3:48 there it is you're seeing a comparison of yes ... anyway uh
3:54 as you can see here the Ventura County ... the bottom part of that chart is the entire economy all
4:00 employers public and private sector and the average annual wage in the county in 2020 was 63 000
4:06 the non-profit sector which this excludes the hospitals ... just because those are
4:13 different you know yeah not all non-profits have been created equal yes ... they're it's more useful to
4:19 compare them to other hospitals than other nonprofits right ... anyway ... the average wage for someone in the
4:25 nonprofit sector is forty three thousand twenty thousand lower than the overall average um
4:31 so the gender disparity issue comes up when we look at uh
4:37 on that page overall ... women in Ventura County in
4:42 2019 made about um
4:48 84 cents on the dollar compared to men which is pretty similar to the nationwide numbers on that but i thought
4:54 what we what we have that's pretty interesting here is we break that down by sector and um
5:00 i don't know i guess i was a little surprised i don't know i wasn't i didn't have any preconceived notions going in i
5:05 guess i was mildly surprised to see that the non-profit sector actually has greater uh
5:11 income inequality than than the for-profit private business sector um
5:17 for-profit private businesses which is you know where even in ontario county where most people work is 86 cents on the dollar and the
5:25 non-profit sector is 81.7 there is even more inequality in most government
5:31 jobs state local and federal ... i have like my theories on that i think the local government is kind of the
5:37 least gender equitable probably because the
5:43 most like the highest paid positions in local government tend to be police and fire and those are not very gender
5:48 equitable industries ... anyway ... i want to hop in and like give a comment on this too so as we look
5:55 at like the inequality ... as it pertains to gender ... pay in the nonprofit industry the
6:01 part about this that fascinates me the most is that the nonprofit sector is primarily made up of
6:07 women ... so the fact that like we have a large percentage of a workforce that is
6:13 ... that is female but also has the greatest like pay disparity or a larger pay disparity
6:19 compared to like our for-profit sector which probably is a little more equal in like high in gender hiring ... this to me
6:26 is very fascinating i think this is something for our executive directors and boards to be looking at as well um
6:32 because oftentimes with non-profits we're seeing that men tend to be executive directors or hold higher
6:37 positions because often times men are recruited out of the for-profit sector to come lead organizations
6:44 ... as well and women tend to be like in in our positions we're we're the fundraisers we're the frontline workers
6:51 we're you know we're doing program work and so it's been for so Emily and i thought that this was a very fascinating
6:56 statistic that even though we are in a industry that is highly female like
7:03 let's let's just be honest about that that it also has like the highest pay gap ... paid disparity of some of many of the
7:10 other like lines of business here well and just like real talk if non-profits want to compete for
7:17 talent they need to pay somewhere in the same ballpark and also the idea that
7:23 because we're doing good work we don't need to be paid as much as our ... colleagues in other
7:31 sectors is frankly ... period and in fact i'm gonna go out on a
7:38 limb call me crazy that we should actually be paid more because we're
7:43 doing really hard work you know if you have to show up every single day and and you know work with the hardest to serve
7:49 populations the most you know kids with cancer like you're doing the hardest work shouldn't you actually get paid
7:56 more to do the hardest work shouldn't you actually have really good mental health leave ... if you're working you
8:02 know with mothers shouldn't you have a good parental paid leave policy and so
8:08 like i'm just gonna
8:15 sector isn't highly educated that's the other problem it is a highly educated sector you know there's a lot of people
8:21 in the sector like most have bas even though we do not require ... college experience you know to come to work for
8:28 us but there's a lot of people that require ma's mbas phds to work in some
8:33 of these areas as well so to me even just like the pay gap in this i don't think this was reflected in this in this
8:38 report ... but the pay gap between level of education to you know to the sector is probably
8:45 ridiculous so if you have a phd like in ... organizational management and you're
8:50 working at amgen you're probably going to be making a ridiculous amount more probably three times as much as somebody with a phd in organizational management
8:57 that's an executive director you know in the nonprofit sector so what Emily was saying reminded me a
9:03 funny story i worked well i do work in journalism which is an industry
9:08 which is allegedly for-profit but you know not so great lately ... at a place i worked that was part of a
9:15 big newspaper oh i just gave it away a big journalism company
9:20 maybe 10 years ago or more more than that ... but it was in the aftermath of the recession it was like 2008.99
9:27 somewhere in there ... we had some like new corporate
9:33 marketing muck like you know c-suite level person from the corporate
9:38 ownership level visit our office and one of the questions that the you know local
9:43 employees of this company had was hey they froze our like annual cost of living raises you know when the
9:49 recession hit ... like when when are we going to get that back when am i going to get a raise again and the
9:54 answer which i've heard the term psychic income before but i had never heard it used
10:00 to someone's face to tell them why they made not very much money the dude
10:05 literally said well we know that ... you know you get a lot out of working in
10:12 this industry and like it's you know you're doing a lot of good and it's like we know it's you get a lot of psychic
10:18 income instead of cash girls my psychic income paid my mortgage
10:24 that would be awesome how much money
10:29 yeah didn't go over well but that's something i've heard people talk about in i assume you know nonprofits as
10:36 well but at least local journalism usually not to the person's face to tell
10:41 them why they're not making more from some guy with a you know seven figure bonus but
10:48 well and and i'm also going to say you know there's this immense misconception
10:55 about how administrative expenses how salaries are bad for non-profits ... what's really
11:02 bad for nonprofits is turnover by the way that's like the most expensive thing for an organization and it is hidden it
11:08 does not show up on your pnl i'm gonna pop in at this point though because we've done an entire building forward on this so go to our youtube
11:15 channel find that building forward listen to it but we are at 16 minutes to go so i'm going to turn the floor back
11:20 over to Tony to go over our next indicator yeah so one of the things that i think is very
11:26 related to this this is a chart that we put together on the cost of living in Ventura County ... this is uh
11:35 basically you know standard actually there's an explanation if i just scroll up yeah um
11:40 housing food child care in the larger if you have children transportation health care how much do you have to make to be
11:47 able to live here ... and there's different levels for you know a household of one adult was in
11:52 1925 an hourly wage okay ... you know the average farm job is below that um
11:59 but you know the average like administrative office support sales the majority of jobs in the county do
12:06 meet that 1925 but then you get to like well ... a single parent with one child and the
12:12 living wage there is 42 an hour and that
12:17 you know most jobs in the nonprofit sector are nowhere near that ... and you know the
12:23 the cost of everything is kind of high here but i believe that housing is what's really driving this and i have
12:29 charts i can show if you want ... but you know everybody kind of knows the ... the
12:34 housing situation ... whether it's to own or rent that's the the main driver of this being a really expensive place to
12:40 live and i think the important thing to remember when we're talking about a living wage is living wages just defined
12:46 as keeping somebody above the poverty line so it's not necessarily allowing them room to
12:51 have like an emergency fund saved up to have like you know that rainy day fund but even like an opportunity to even put
12:58 more money back into the economy by being able to go out every so often or being able to like shop locally so this
13:04 is like that living which is just to keep somebody and their child out of poverty but not by much
13:11 yeah i mean i'm actually that would that would be good i mean to learn the formulas i did not do the calculations on that ... you know it's
13:18 kind of got like standard budgets for food it's not what i would describe as like poverty wage but i don't know that
13:24 they've built in you know excessive savings or like you said the kind of
13:29 dining out expenses that a lot of us would like and that kind of thing or even like do you have enough cash in the
13:34 bank if your car breaks down to fix it you know like and and so let's
13:40 pull up those housing charts because if if people in our community aren't earning a thriving wage
13:48 their their ongoing stress level just being concerned about keeping a
13:54 roof over their head is really a lot and quite unnecessary it's
13:59 kind of cruel so this right here is the for sale end
14:06 of the data this is just the top chart is Ventura County home price on the top
14:11 with the blue line and the state average it's the green one and actually we're not that much more expensive than state average anymore
14:17 it's kind of catching up this only runs through ... mid 2021 because that's when we put this report together but just
14:24 extend that line it's there's been no change you know i mean the appreciation home prices has slowed
14:29 down a little in the past few months and we wouldn't say there's been no change but it hasn't flattened out or anything at all um
14:35 so you know the medium price of homes was last year 840 000 in Ventura County it's
14:41 more now ... you do the math but the average non-profit worker making 43 000 a year
14:48 is not buying an 840 000 home without some something extraordinary going on
14:54 ... so this is the affordability index for Ventura County and for some
14:59 other counties in our greater region ... in 2021 27 of ontario
15:05 county residents could afford the median priced home based on i guess they account for like one-third of your
15:10 income going toward housing which is kind of the standard ... that's as you can see i mean it's better than santa barbara but it's
15:18 actually you know the same as the state level but like nationwide it's double that it's half as many people can afford
15:23 the average home here as the national average ... and you can see the bottom chart there
15:29 is you know half of that equation is cost of housing the other half is what's your family income and
15:35 the median family income our economy in Ventura County has really not been great for you know ever since the
15:42 recession we did not have a real recovery the way the rest of the state and the nation did um
15:49 median family income inflation controlled in that chart it expresses it in 2005 dollars
15:55 is was lower in 2019 than it had been 10 years earlier um
16:01 that's that is a couple years old that's the best we had last year but ... so that post post-procession flatline
16:08 is fascinating to me yeah yeah ... there was
16:14 you'd see the same thing looking at our gross domestic product like rose county product there there was really no recovery to speak up
16:21 in Ventura County the economy between you know bottoming out in the recession like a
16:26 little bit of recovery but between say 2012 and 2020 basically flat um
16:32 any any growth was just kind of inflation and level growth do you have a sense of
16:38 if you wanted to make this like to like a national comparison level or even just a state comparison level on ... recovery
16:44 because right now it kind of looks like Ventura County is like almost like a decade behind possibly the state and even the
16:51 country as it pertains to what this like post-recession recovery looks like i mean i don't know about a decade
16:57 behind but it took ... much longer it was only within the past
17:02 few years that that Ventura County recovered the job loss from 2008 2009
17:08 and the state of california you know was many years ahead of that um
17:14 there's a lot of healthier regions economically than Ventura County has been
17:19 [Music] interesting thank you and then this one ... rents are like basically the same
17:26 story as purchase home prices ... this again goes through mid-2021
17:32 huge the increase from 2020 to 21 was like one of the biggest on record in in
17:38 rents around here and the average i guess that's a two bedroom yeah the average two bedroom ... last year was
17:44 going for twenty four 400 i'm sure it's more now ... and the other line on that chart is the
17:50 vacancy rate which is like very like economics 101 supply and demand but once
17:58 you see it in action i mean the vacancy rate is like basically zero anything below five percent is pretty low and so
18:04 even when Ventura County had like a 3.9 percent vacancy rate 10 years ago that's still a pretty tight rental market the
18:11 fact that it's been below 2 is just an insanely tight rental market uh
18:16 like if you're a landlord you can kind of charge whatever you want almost because people have nowhere if you know
18:23 there's just not a lot of places for them to choose from so if you want to look at this from like an analogy standpoint it's kind of like
18:29 musical chairs but there's 10 people who are now dancing around one chair hoping
18:34 to get their shot into that and the person who's basically like owns that chair or like landlords in the area can
18:41 charge whatever they want once you sit in it and that's the very interesting part and especially once we see the turnover that's when we see the highest
18:47 increase in rents thankfully we have caps in place that allow like once you're in your place you can't you know
18:53 that you can't just get priced out on a whim ... but yeah essentially we have 10
18:58 people going for every apartment or every home right now ... the other part of this chart that i thought was really
19:04 interesting is if you look at this compared to the wages chart that we just looked at so um
19:10 rent was stagnant from about 2008 to 2014 but it started to climb significantly in
19:17 2015 but we weren't seeing the same wage increases you know at that same level so as we're
19:24 seeing wages remain stagnant this these dollars now have to purchase significantly more as it pertains to
19:30 rent so your take home is actually going down so if anything like the rental market ... in the housing market has
19:37 started to create significant ... further income inequalities within the region as well
19:43 yeah and as you can see there like it wasn't always like this if you're renting an apartment the average renter
19:49 in Ventura County was paying less when you adjust for inflation and everything in 2014 than they were in 2007. they're
19:55 just pretty much the same ... i'd be really i'm gonna watch this kind of stuff in the next couple years i'll be
20:01 really interested to see what happens you know at the moment there's more new apartment units under construction
20:07 in at least like ventura and oxnard than there's been in i don't know ever
20:14 yeah oxnard has a little wagon wheel thing that's maybe thousands of units yeah i know for a fact that the city of
20:19 ventura has multiple thousands of units under construction at the moment or permitted for construction
20:25 ... and so you know there's i don't want to get too deep into the weeds on like housing
20:30 economics but like some people have an idea that okay if the average rent in town is two thousand
20:35 dollars and this building opens and the average rent in the new building is three thousand but that's not going
20:41 to do anything to help the market but that's that's not really true i mean putting more units even at the higher
20:47 end just adds to the overall pool of available apartments lowers the vacancy rate it takes other older apartments
20:52 kind of like down a notch you know so another place used to be the nicest apartments in town but this new one
20:58 opens up well that one becomes like not affordable but like you know slightly less desirable and available to
21:04 a wider range of people well and let's talk six minutes ago let's
21:10 mention i'll talk about whatever you want then yeah what what's up what's next well i need to mention too how this
21:18 disproportionately affects women and especially single women and especially especially single single parents who are
21:24 women who ... need to make significantly more to stay out of poverty and are
21:29 statistically paid less and oh by the way they only have one income so again if you get
21:35 laid off you know you just your state your safety net your your sustainability
21:40 is just so much tighter when you're a single income household
21:47 and i think it's important because this definitely plays into like a lot of the conversations that we've been having here at Visionality about thriving wages
21:55 ... and the the state of the region report has always been like a really good tool for us to
22:00 reference we're having conversations with nonprofits about increasing pay for employees
22:05 ... because they have because people tend or boards tend to
22:11 makes significantly different incomes than people working on profits and so when it comes to
22:17 making decisions about budgeting for staff pay increases um
22:22 most boards do not understand the difference of what 150 dollars a month can actually do for somebody compared
22:29 because it would obviously do nothing for for somebody that's making like a high six-figure salary and those people
22:34 tend to be the ones that non-profits are going after to put on their boards but 150 a month like increase i know that
22:40 sounds very like low because it is ... but that can actually make a fairly significant difference especially like
22:46 with inflation right now and with gas prices going up and so i actually kind of wanted to wrap a little bit on that
22:52 as well of this is all as of mid-2021 and
22:57 we're looking at a seven percent inflation rate ... so how does Tony how does a seven percent
23:04 inflation rate like increase the disparities or increase just like even the numbers that we're looking at
23:10 right now yeah i mean it'll be interesting i assume that the state of the region will continue to
23:16 come out every two years and i'll i'll be doing it again next year ... you know in the past i mean we've just throughout
23:22 most of our lifetimes we've lived in such a low inflation environment that unless we were starting something over
23:29 multi you know 10 years or more we didn't really bother adjusting for inflation like okay last year this year we'll just put the dollar amounts next
23:35 to each other was a one percent inflation rate who cares close enough if it's seven percent obviously that's
23:41 going to change absolutely everything and like theoretically in the type of
23:47 inflationary economy we have now okay like on the whole yes wages are going up too
23:53 but wages don't go up the same way that prices go up you know like the price of
23:59 gasoline you can change like you just change the sign on the gas station and that goes up as soon as the price of a
24:05 barrel of oil goes up price of gasoline goes up if a company decides to raise wages to keep
24:11 up with inflation whether you know out of the goodness of their heart or because they need to i mean
24:16 the thing about this with inflation like okay in some ways the economy is not great but like workers are in really high demand you've
24:23 heard of the great resignation most of those people are leaving for newer and better jobs ... so if you're an industry
24:29 in an industry like that yes wages are going to go up but they don't go up every day you know they don't go up when
24:34 the price gasoline goes up maybe next year you'll get a raise or maybe you switch jobs to a higher paying job but
24:40 it doesn't keep up with you know inflation running at seven eight percent a year you're going to have to just
24:47 bite the bullet on that for some time until you get that you know increasing wage if it is
24:52 coming for you i am a question would be do we want to look at asking boards and executives to
24:59 consider a seven to eight percent pay increase this year across the board for their staff just to keep up since a
25:04 three percent cost of living increase is no longer a cost of living increase it's now technically a four percent decrease in
25:11 buying power yeah i mean the the very recent like the this past year
25:16 is coming in on like seven percent or something that's supposed to not continue i mean
25:22 you know in some sense like the fact that our unemployment is pretty low and we didn't
25:27 have a massive repeat of the great recession during the pandemic has a lot to do with why we
25:32 have inflation now i'm certainly not an economist by training i wasn't even an econ major i won't get too like don't
25:38 let me talk about that because i only like know a little but you know there's like we're revving up the economy with the
25:44 conscious decision of this could result in inflation now we have to slam on the brakes ... so
25:50 2022 will probably be lower inflation and lower growth like i don't know if you would say like now everybody needs a
25:57 seven percent cost of living but if your employer was doing like two percent that's not gonna keep up or if they were
26:02 doing zero percent you know that's if if you if your wages are flat then you have a decrease like if you're getting a zero
26:10 or one or two percent raise from 20 21 to 22 then you will have less money
26:16 well and it's interesting too specifically in the nonprofit industry because even before the pandemic and
26:22 before the great resignation we already had trouble keeping fundraisers specifically where we saw fundraising
26:29 positions turn over about every two and a half years and it was chasing that extra you know 50 cents an
26:36 hour or whatever and so i'm just going to double down on saying giving employees raises so that they are ... not
26:44 super duper encouraged to look for another job is going to be the the number one thing you can do for the
26:50 financial health of your organization because you're not having those turnover costs right turnover is always costly
26:56 but in the current environment where you can't count on being able to fill that position ... that's going to be you have
27:02 to think about would i rather pay this person more or would i rather have nobody in that position for however long
27:08 you know or have to yeah yeah cost benefit analysis and on that we're
27:13 at five seconds to go so we nailed our 25 uh
27:19 you as always and so we're going to open it up to this loud one so we're going to open it up to questions now you can if you want
27:25 to raise your hand you can raise your hand if you want to hop on the camera if you want to ask something in the chat you are super welcome to ask something
27:31 into the chat ... but otherwise you have about a couple minutes here if you want to ask anything um
27:38 we just kind of like Emily and i have been like talking about this like report for quite a while now and we've like
27:43 Emily used to help put this report together oh yeah by the way yeah this wouldn't exist without Emily at all um
27:50 the only reason we could do without her as project manager is because she did a great such a great job of it
27:55 for the few years that she was the project manager that it was like she was too good she made
28:00 herself obsolete we're like oh well i like Emily's got this just humming like we could just you know do it that's what
28:06 a good project manager does completely impossible yeah thank you one of our graduated clients from way back when
28:13 y'all i'm also curious you know if we don't have any questions for you Tony if anyone on the call has some like lived
28:21 experience that they want to share to sort of illustrate what we're talking about or
28:26 you know concerns we always get the question well yeah i'd love a seven percent raise how the hell do i sell
28:32 this to my board so what do you think about that Tony
28:38 what do, I... I do not have any insight on that one have you asked for a seven percent raise
28:45 ... kinda yeah i did get a promotion of sorts at the start of this year i'm i'm
28:51 now the executive editor of the pacific coast business times instead of the managing editor so and and i'll just speak from our exact
28:57 same thing when we [Music] were we had this transition moment at
29:04 Visionality where we were going from this teeny tiny baby startup like scraping every penny
29:10 together to like a company with employees and we took a step back we um
29:17 looked at nonprofit wages in our community and we gave everyone across
29:22 the board a 20 raise ... i did not know how to pay for that it's not like i had that money in the
29:28 bank if i did i would have been paying people more to begin with but we had really high turnover and so i was like
29:34 well shoot i'm paying this money anyway to rehire and retrain individuals so i'm going to
29:40 take a gamble and see if i give it to people directly instead of just wasting that money filling positions
29:47 maybe they'll stick around and guess what they did they did stick around i think that this assessment that that
29:54 you did we also did two years ago and did another pay increase based on that and i think it's really important to
29:59 remember that like this is not something that just happens once like you have to be assessing your wages against the
30:05 market every couple of years if you want to remain competitive it's going to help you recruit better employees it's going
30:11 to help you retain better employees ... it's always just kind of this opportunity to like make sure that like
30:17 what you're doing that what you're paying is equitable and
30:22 reasonable and that's not just a one-and-done project that is that should always get checked every couple of years
30:28 well and i see someone in the chat oh sorry if you're assessing if you're increasing incoming employee
30:35 wages you also have to reassess existing employee wages so we had to do a lot of that work too where it was like okay i
30:41 know i need to pay at least x to even get applicants for open positions but if
30:47 i'm offering brand new people x you better believe i need to pay my existing
30:52 people who i know their capabilities more than x and so just keep that in mind too when you're doing these
30:58 assessments and two like perfect is the enemy of good so maybe you need to stair step it a little
31:04 bit and if you decide to make a five percent increase today that's better than nothing that's better than just
31:10 sitting on your hands until you can make like the real final adjustment that you need so a couple of thoughts but yes our
31:17 friend david had a comment in the chat that ... convincing the board is easy to give
31:24 raises but negotiations with the county is a tricky ask and i hear you on that one very much yeah i mean i assume that
31:31 that's referring to an organization where the client is the county you can't just decide to pay more if you don't
31:38 like even then i mean if you you work in the nonprofit world and i don't but i it's the same
31:44 as a for-profit business except that you know a for-profit business wants to do better than break even but a non-profit
31:49 still has to break even you still can't just spend money you don't have ... and
31:54 so yeah i don't know what the answer to that is at all but if clients like that are building in cost of living into contracts you know
32:01 yeah the the answer is diversifying your income stream and and then like using
32:07 the the unrestricted money to make up the difference but it is really tough
32:12 when you are primarily funded by the government
32:18 i hear you okay anything else are we good for the day friends
32:24 i think we've done it that's what i love about building forward we can be done
32:29 very fast everybody can get on with their day it's a nice little again we tackled giant conversations in 25
32:35 minutes the fact that we went through an entire economic report with a very smart human being and 25 was pretty awesome
32:42 ... Tony thank you so much for joining us today this was a lot of fun thank you for like making ... making a really great
32:49 presentation on this and allowing us to just kind of like hammer questions at you about how this like impacts the
32:54 non-profit sector specifically we appreciate you i doubted Emily when she said to block out half an hour but look
33:00 at this we got you man
33:06 well everyone thank you for joining us we do this the first wednesday typically
33:12 if you have a topic you want to address what's our next one the next one is with our good friend
33:19 james joyce coffee with a black guy and we are going to talk about hiring for diversity in our community how to make
33:27 it permanent not performative
33:33 you love us alliterations yes so if you have ... topics you want us to address
33:38 shoot them over if you want to be a guest star like Tony is on our building forward we would love to give you a
33:44 place to share the things that you're knowledgeable about. So with that, happy Thursday!
33:50 Happy Thursday! Bye friends